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A Challenge to Robert Thurman

September 20, 2008

From the Dorje Shugden Truth Blog

On 28 April 1997, Newsweek magazine published an article by Tony Clifton called “Cult Mystery – did an obscure Tibetan sect murder three monks close to the Dalai Lama”. The article was the start of the propaganda against Shugden practitioners in general and the New Kadampa Tradition in particular by the Dalai Lama and his followers. It was in this article that the Dalai Lama unfairly and unjustifiably used the word ‘cult’ in relation to the NKT, mud that has stuck for ten years.

The article contained personal attacks and unjustified accusations from the Dalai Lama, supported by Robert Thurman. Robert Thurman has always supported the Dalai Lamas views. In the article Thurman claimed that Shugden practitioners were responsible for the murder of Lobsang Gyatso and his two assistants. He also made other unjustified attacks. Here’s a selection of Thurman’s quotes from the article:

“I think there’s no doubt that Shugden was behind the killings,” says Robert Thurman, America’s foremost Buddhist scholar and an old friend of the Dalai Lama’s. “The three were stabbed repeatedly and cut up in a way that was like an exorcism.”

Dorje Shugden has had an underground following among Tibetans obsessed with doctrinal purity for centuries. “It would not be unfair to call Shugdens the Taliban of Tibetan Buddhism,” says Thurman, referring to the Muslim extremists of Afghanistan, who believe in swift and brutal justice.

“Shugden appeals to crazies by offering instant gratification,” says Thurman. “Once you get involved, you’re told you have to devote your lives to the cult, because the god gets very angry if you don’t attend to him every day. It’s really bad stuff, the way they’re draining money out of people.”

Now the Western Shugden Society has issued an open letter to Robert Thurman asking him to justify his claims.

If Robert Thurman uses his academic qualifications and his fame in the Buddhist community to lend weight to an attack on the reputation of Shugden practitioners you’d expect him to have some research and some data to back it up his claims as any good academic would, so let’s see if it’s there.

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From → robert thurman

2 Comments
  1. Thomas Canada/Cedar City,Utah permalink

    “I think there’s no doubt that Shugden was behind the killings,” says Robert Thurman, America’s foremost Buddhist scholar and an old friend of the Dalai Lama’s. “The three were stabbed repeatedly and cut up in a way that was like an exorcism.”

    Dorje Shugden has had an underground following among Tibetans obsessed with doctrinal purity for centuries. “It would not be unfair to call Shugdens the Taliban of Tibetan Buddhism,” says Thurman, referring to the Muslim extremists of Afghanistan, who believe in swift and brutal justice.

    “Shugden appeals to crazies by offering instant gratification,” says Thurman. “Once you get involved, you’re told you have to devote your lives to the cult, because the god gets very angry if you don’t attend to him every day. It’s really bad stuff, the way they’re draining money out of people.”

    I received a call from Old Taliban Bob, from Gesthsemene Monastery in Kentucky one afternnoon in the fall of 1996. They were on a pilgrimage to the monastery of Thomas Merton.
    Bob began to rant on about “this nonsense about Dorje Shugden has to stop , right now”. He proceeded with a full frontal assault, as I stirred the pot of soup on the stove and cut up some bread.
    I listened for awhile as he told me that the Dalia was upset and wanted all of this to cease now and I should listen unless I wanted to stir up a wasp nest.
    I stirred my soup and pondered his suggestion about wasp nest being stirred up became more intriguing with each syllable he uttered. His brash demands slowly began to make me simmer.
    I turned down the soup.
    I said, Well Bob, Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche was Teaching and seeding the turf for the dharma. He told me that he and Dali were best of friends and that he loved the Dalia lama. I spoke with the Gelek in Madison to check the compass and he assured me, “Thom, I’m from Dorje Shugden Country”, with a slow Western drawl.
    Gelek, Why back where I am from in Tibet, Everyone worships
    and reveres Shri Dorje Shugden. There’s nothing to worry about, the Dalia will not be a problem.
    People just let him rant and go on with their Practice.
    He told me Bob Thurman literally crawled across the floor and begged for the Dorje Shugden initaition. The answer was always no to Bob.
    Lama reasoning is beyond mine and I don’t know.
    Bob began to sound like a Bible Thumping Preacher on the Hell Fire and Brimstone on the Kentucky Mule Circuit. He was pounding on something in the background while he proceeded to ream me and threaten me every which way he could think to force me to stop this nonsense..
    Of course being a Southern Indiana Red Neck, I told him that I would be happy to deliver him a big fat lip and black eye if he tried to ever mess with me in any way. I knew Bob from more casual times and I recognized he was having a LSD flashback from some dark place in his mind.
    This went on for well over two hours and I turned the soup off.
    A few months later Bob posted the magazine article and called us Taliban exactly when the real Taliban were cutting off women’s head in the Kabul Soccer Stadium. Real funny for a guy who married The LSD Guru,Timothy Leary ex wife. I wondered where we choose different paths for him to actually broadcasting Private Family Business in a world wide publication.
    We were happy to see the Protector Image go global. Thanks Bob, your ill mannered disclosure worked well for us in the long run.He enlisted his comrades that practice HooDoo VooDoo and I head they made a lot of cookie dough.
    The point is this guy is potentially a bipolar psychotic that has taken well over 800 LSD trips and melted into a mandala of absolute lust for power and really bought into the Psychedlic Beatle Tune that there is just one and he decided he wants to be the one and only. He is a reincarnate Himmler and serves the reincarnate War Lord Tenzin Gyatso as Hitler with their quest for global dominance as the one and only Head Of All Buddhism is his psychedlic lie.
    It’s complicated

  2. Thomas Canada / Cedar City,Utah permalink

    Robert Thurman,
    I challenge you to defend your lies and if you do not reply to me personally.

    Then you are all the things I say of you, and you are a Liar and Traitor to the Principles of Democracy and the dharma.

    We are not all perfect beings and neither are we journalist.
    Some of us realize that Tenzin Gyatso Norbu is a deceitful self cherishing incarnate of a Feudal War Lord. Who slaughtered his own people to seize and maintain control of the different approaches to the Teachngs Of Lord Buddha. Some of us realize that he is the antithesis of a man who trampels daily by his ignorance or attempts to undermine the underpinning of the Bill Of Rights and Civil Liberties of the People. The Dharma flourishes because it has a home that respects and protects the rights of all to believe as they choose.
    This schism only magnified his abbhorrence of individual thought to reason and find the way to the truth that Lord Buddha taught to us.
    He prefers to lie and deceive and use the mouthpiece of Bob Thurman to validate his claims, that he actually speaks from the truth.
    They have no weapons to use against the WSS or any of us who are fighting to protect the rights of all People everywhere to believe as they choose.
    Why?
    Because, he as lied and violated the very principles, I mentioned already.
    Justice they say is Blind. But not blind to the breaking of our laws that keep us from the darkness of lawlessness.

    Nothing that has been said, that can be disproved or proved within cetain disciplines.
    However, if enough people see the truth and think about it long enough. Then the truth will prevail.
    We do nothing to deserve this abuse and he says nothing that justifies his lies and abuse to those suffering due to his activities to maintain some power base.
    He is not a Buddha and lies with the ease of a Mississippi River Boat Gambler.

    Not all of us are scholars or well versed, but we have the common sense that Lord Buddha attributed to we mere mortals, to reason ourselves out of ignorance and find liberation one day.

    The only loss of credibility is his and Bob’s incessant lying and deception they spew from their mouths each and everyday.

    Only by the tenacious and continuous fortitude of each and every voice resonating with protest that he speak the truth will we all find what we seek in the least from all of us.

    Lord Buddha by all accounts, fought against the status of deceit and lying of other intent to have their self cherishing lifestyles maintained by the suppression of others by perverting the truths and creating all manners of maras to keep it that way.
    This is a Democracy and not all voices may speak as you wish, but we speak with sincerity and a desire to eliminate ignorance and lies that hinder all from the seeking the way home safely.

    I hope they challenge any of us publically with a rational and logical defense of their actions and try to defend this insanity on the Global forum for All to Witness.

    If they had a leg to stand on, he would have courageously pursued it already. They have not, nor do they intend to confront you or me or anyone else directly. Instead they have Death Squads slinking down dark alley ways and then have the audacity to point the finger at us.

    He cannot hold his own, unless he is speaking to his ‘Chorus of Supporters’.

    So, relax and let democracy protect us from these Monsters.
    Even Hitler had his day, and was loved by the deluded and brainwashed, and you can see what eventually happened to them.
    As Dr, Bernis, who was in Munich during the bombing by the Allies in WWll, said . Yes, Thom! We are grateful even for this tragedy. Imagine where we Germans and the world would be today, had Hitler had his way?

    This is warfare, not a nuance of semantics and dialectics within the debate halls of a Nunnery or Monastery.
    We, The People, ill-versed and flawed, as we may be. Will fight on and on, until we defeat this monster and his mimmicks, who only care for personal power over others.

    Hey There! Tenzin Gyatos Norbu! It’s me, Thom Canada calling you and Bob out to defend your lies.!
    See!…………………………………………….not a word of reply!’

    Why! Because they are cowards and thieves of the dharma and know to fear me and you and anyone else who shines the Light of Truth.

    We all attempt to say this truth with the sincerity of our hearts, and not the lies of a cheating mind portrayed by them

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